状告市府,手撕地方检察官! 费城韩裔市议员欧大卫采访记

费城韩裔市议员欧大卫采访记

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身为亚裔,身为军人,身为律师,身为议员。身为亚裔却不乖巧伶俐,身为军人却没有浴血沙场,身为律师却状告政府,身为议员却被歹徒所伤。费城市议员欧大卫是几个不同身份的混合体。这些看似与亚裔传统观念和刻板印象相悖的经历使得他的人生特别“异常”。这种“异常”也许承载着亚裔美国人极其不同的历史和份量。
不同的身份重合在一个人身上会形成怎样的担当和梦想?父辈们当年找到的应许之地给今天的后辈带来怎样的阅历和份量?作为费城地区第一个亚裔市议员,也是目前唯一的一个有过军旅生涯的市议员。他的背后有着多少不为人知的砥砺前行?带着很多的问题,《海华都市报》记者走访了欧大卫市议员。

以下是采访记录:(根据录音整理,有调整和删节)

《海华都市报》采访实录

萧蔷

Mr. Councilman, I ‘m curious about your last name. Your last name doesn’t sound like an American name.

记者 :你好,市议员先生,我对你的姓很好奇。你的姓不是一个传统意义上的美国姓氏。

David: No, it’s not.

欧大卫市议员: 不,不是。

David is an American name. But, Oh is not. Have you ever been taunted (laugh at) in your childhood just because of your last name?

记者 :大卫听起来是个美国名字,不过你的姓氏“欧Oh”不是美国的姓。你小时候因为这个姓被人嘲笑过奚落过吗?

David: Of course.

欧大卫市议员:当然。

How do you respond to that?

记者 :你如何回应的?

David: It’s been a long time. Let me say when I was a child, when I was a teenage, when I was a young adult, when I was a professional, when I was a lawyer…It’s a long time. As an Asian American born in Philadelphia and grow up in a non-Asian community — I grow up in a black community. I still live in an African American community. I live in a rough and poor neighborhood. It’s a common experience if you are Asian in America you will be laughed at. Sometimes, people like to pick on people. It’s a human nature, not a good nature, but that’s because they look at you from the outside. They make a judgment; sometime it’s a wrong judgment. They may try to make fun of you or laugh at you, but that doesn’t always work well for them. So, it depends how you respond.

欧大卫市议员:很久了。让我这样来回答吧。当我是个孩子的时候,是个少年的时候,是个年轻人的时候,工作了以后,当了律师以后……真的很久了。作为一个在费城出生的亚裔—-我在黑人区长大,现在还住在黑人社区,难搞的又贫穷的社区。要知道在美国作为亚裔被嘲弄并不罕见。有时候,人们乐意找你麻烦。人性如此,尽管这不是好的品质。人们根据你的外在来评判你的人格,作出臆断,有时候这些臆断错得离谱。他们可能取笑你奚落你,这对他们来说也不好。所以,要看你如何来回应。

That’s a very good answer. It also answers my 2nd question. My 2nd question is: are you a 1st generation Korean American? Or 2nd generation?

记者:这是很好的回答。事实上这也回答了我的第二个问题。我的第二个问题是:你是第一代韩裔美国人还是第二代?

David: My father was born in China. He is a Korean, but you know Japanese occupied Korea. So, his father left Korea and into Manchuria. There he joined Chinese Wen Chun Independence movement against the Japanese.

欧大卫市议员:我父亲出生在中国。他是韩国人,不过那时候日本占领了韩国。所以,他的父亲离开了韩国去了满洲(中国东北)。在那里他参加了在中国的”WenChun”独立运动对抗日本人。

Is that part of the Korean Independence movement?

记者 :这是韩国独立运动的一部分吗?

David: It’s different. Well, the Korean independence movement started with the movement against the King of Korea; then it became the movement against the occupation of Japan; after Japan left Korea into China and pacific area it became yet a little bit different movement. Because they were Chinese and Korean, in part, it was the independence movement of Korea, but it was also an independence movement of China.

欧大卫市议员:不完全一样。独立运动开始的时候反抗韩国帝制,然后反抗日本占领,在日本占领中国和太平洋战争期间这个运动起了一些变化。因为反抗者是中国人、韩国人,这是韩国独立运动也是中国抵抗运动的一部分。

It’s a long history and your family has a long tradition as oversea Korean, not really living in Korean peninsula. So, when you grow up, have you seen yourself trapped in between two cultures?

记者 :历史很长。看来你们家在海外很久了,并没有一直在朝鲜半岛。那在你长大的时候,你觉得自己在东西文化之间无所适从吗?

David: No.

欧大卫市议员:没有。

Never?

记者 :从没有?

David: Never. Let me say this. I see myself as me. I don’t see myself as fitting into like I must fit in as a Korean; I must fit in as American. I know many people struggle with their identity. My father was a pastor of a Presbyterian church.  We grew up in an all black neighborhood. We didn’t live in a white neighborhood.

欧大卫市议员:从没有。让我这样来回答吧,我认为我就是我。我不认为我必须要把自己放进某个条条框框。比如我必须是一个韩国人或者我必须是一个美国人。我知道很多人在这个问题上觉得很挣扎。我父亲是一个基督教长老会教堂的牧师,我们在一个黑人社区长大,没有在白人社区。

Why? May I ask? Do you choose to live in a black neighborhood?

记者 :为什么?我能问下为什么吗?你们是选择住在黑人社区吗?

David: My father chose to live there? You know, First, let’s be frank, you know, he came from the Korean war and he moved into a lower middle class white neighborhood, and it is before 1953.  Asian immigrants could not become U.S. citizens until 1952. He came in 50, like the end of 52 and then 53. He was in Philadelphia, but he found a place he could move into. You know, the mostly the Asian immigrants. They’re not immigrants. They’re non immigrants, like foreign students exchange. They cannot work and not allowed to work, and so it’s very hard to be an immigrant. They came as students and other things.

So, you know, he was able to buy a building, a house in this neighborhood to make it a community center. He was studying at the time, and he came as a student. But then, after the murder of his nephew in Philadelphia, he ended up becoming a pastor, and but he started a church, and then he bought a building in southwest Philadelphia, which was a poor white neighborhood. But historically there is a thing called white flight. So when a black person moved in a neighborhood. They were moving out anyway so quickly, like in a few years, went from a white neighborhood to a black neighborhood. But he had already established his community center and his church, so he believed that this neighborhood that he started, his building and his church, was a blessed neighborhood. Blessed by God. He was a blessing he could buy a building, so he was committed to that neighborhood. I asked him many times, why do you live here? You know, because there was a lot of violence. There was gang violence and drug addiction. The kids would throw the stones and break the Windows of the church. You know, the Korean church, black kids. And you know, we had to deal with broken Windows, alarms of robbery, burglary, car theft, you know, so you know he would try to say something to me because I was a poor student with bad grades and a bad attitude, and I was getting suspended in fighting and he would tell me you’re a bad kid. And I would say I am a bad kid because I grew up in this neighborhood that you came to live.

欧大卫市议员:我父亲选择住在那儿。第一:坦率地说,那时候正是韩战时期,他从韩国战场来,进入了一个中低收入阶层的白人社区。那是1953年之前。要知道在1952年之前,亚裔是不能入籍成为美国公民的。他大概是1952年底来的,53年到了费城。他找到了一个可以搬入的地方。大部分亚裔在那些年都不能被称为移民的。他们是学生,是交换人员。他们不能合法工作。要成为移民很难,他们是作为学生或者其他身份进来的。

他就在这个社区买下房子,改造成社区中心。他是作为学生来的,当时还在读书。但是在他侄子在费城被杀了之后,他成了一个牧师,然后在费城西南边的一个贫穷白人社区建起了一座教堂。历史上,有过白人迁徙(White Flight)这一说法。当时的情况是,一个社区一旦有黑人搬进来,白人都搬出去了。几年里,这地方从白人区变成了黑人区。这时候他已经建起了他的社区中心和教堂。他相信他建起的地方是受到上帝眷顾的地方。他被上帝眷顾所以他能在这样的年月这样的背景下买房子买地建起社区。所以他致力于服务社区。我问过他很多次:你为什么住在这里?要知道这里有很多暴力事件。有帮派,有毒品。捣蛋孩子把石块扔进教堂砸碎玻璃等等。我们必须面对碎玻璃、警报系统、抢劫、偷车等等事件。他会对我叨咕叨因为我学习不好。我不是个好学生,成绩差,态度差,因为打架被学校停学。他会告诉我我是坏孩子。我会告诉他我是坏孩子因为我住在这样的社区,而你选择住在这里(笑声)。

So, it’s all your fault. (Laugh)

记者 :所以这都是你的错。(笑声)

David: Your fault. (laugh) So you came from Korea. You couldn’t live in a nicer place in America? You have to live in the middle gang war, black gang, drugs, all that? But his point is, this a blessed neighborhood. Later, looking at his perspectives and his experiences, I understood later how much suffering they went through. You know, the Japanese occupation was very brutal. World war II, the Korean war, a lot of death. And then, in 1953, 1954, racism was normal. You could just say, Oh, you are Asian and you can’t eat here. You can’t live here. You can’t buy a house here. You can’t work here. They could simply say this to you. Oh, you are Asian. We don’t hire Asians because you can’t do a good job. They can just speak honestly. They may still think that, but they cannot say it, right? People are very clever. They learn not to say that, but, it doesn’t mean they don’t think it.  So, you know, I remember we went to a trip and then we stop to get some food and they wouldn’t serve us because we’re Asian.

This is after the WW II. People cannot tell are you Japanese? Are you Vietnamese? They just didn’t like Asian, right? So anyway, is just normal. I am not saying it’s okay, but I am saying it’s not unusual. So he lived there and then later I believed that he is right. He would say, if every good person left this neighborhood, this would be a bad neighborhood. We have to be here, and he believed that he could give his testimony as a person, as an Asian American, by living in this neighborhood, keeping it clean, fixing it up. He just found a purpose in living in a bad neighborhood.

欧大卫市议员:你的错(笑声)。你从韩国来,你就不能在美国找一个更好一点的地方吗?你必须住在帮派打架毒品泛滥的地区吗?然而,他的看法是:这是一片受上帝眷顾的地方,是一片应许之地。后来,在我长大以后,在我了解了他的背景他的经历之后,我才慢慢懂得他们这一代人经历了多少磨难。日本占据韩国时期是很血腥的。第二次世界大战,韩战,都极其血腥而残忍。到了美国之后,在1953、1954这些年份,种族主义又到处可见。你可以说:哦,你是亚裔,你不能住在这里。你不能在这里买房子买地。你不能在这儿工作。我们不雇佣亚裔因为你干不了这活儿。老实说,他们可能还这么想的(笑声),只不过他们不说出来。学聪明了。他们不说出来不代表他们不这么想。我记得我们出去郊游,中途停下来去买吃的,他们不肯提供服务因为我们是亚裔。

那时候是二战以后了。人家不知道你是日本人还是越南人……就是不喜欢亚裔。这并不罕见。我不是说这很正常,但是我说这并不罕见。他住在那儿。后来…慢慢地我相信了他是对的。他说过如果每一个好人都搬走的话,这个社区就成为不好的社区了。我们必须在这里。他相信他可以为此做见证:作为一个普通人,作为一个亚裔美国人,住在这个社区。勤俭持家、敝帚自珍,他找到了住在这个社区的意义。

That’s very unique. Thank you for sharing that story.

记者 :这很特别。谢谢你分享这些事情给我们听。

David: Let me go back to your original question, because I think I forgot to say this. So because of that, you know, my father’s belief and my belief is God made you. God made me. Some people don’t believe in God. That’s OK. But I believe that God made each person uniquely and perfectly not the outside but the inside. So, we cannot hate another person, or we cannot judge another person.  Therefore, when I was a child, I lived in a black neighborhood and I went to a Korean church. The Korean adults would say, do you think your Korean or American?

And they’d say, are you American or are you Korean? And I would say: I am David. (Laugh) They’d say, you’re Korean. You don’t speak Korean, that’s it. That’s correct. Yeah, shame on you. You don’t speak Korean. I would say, you know, I don’t speak Korean, but I am comfortable with who I am. I try to learn Korean. I am just not that smart. Some people would say we are Americans., we are not Koreans. I’d say, well, I am a Korean American, but I have a lot of perspectives, culture and understanding of being Asian. So, I ‘m American, but I am an Asian American.

I found a lot of people who I grew up with. They were kind of struggled. They felt I must choose to be white. They didn’t choose to be black.  I choose to be White, or, I choose to be Korean. That is a very difficult, mentally very difficult for them. I think underneath it they want to be accepted. But they are, like, am I part of this group or this group? But I was felt I am not part of this. It’s not that I am part of this group. I am part of that group or no group. It doesn’t matter. Because, I am only responsible for myself. So I am just going to be me. If these people want to engage with me, great! If not, it’s okay. These people want to engage with me. Black, white, Latino, Asian, Chinese, Korean, it doesn’t really matter. So I will say I never actually had that kind of turmoil. But I know that that turmoil is very common.

I want to help them. I want to communicate with them, but I cannot because I have no understanding of what is bothering them. I simply can say that you are you. You can not be judged by someone else. You don’t speak Chinese. You don’t look this.  Yes, you are you. There’s nothing to be apologetic. You know, David Oh, you are really short? Yes I am. There’s nothing wrong with it. Oh, you know, you’re you’re getting older. I am getting older.  There’s nothing to be apologetic about anything. Some things are good. Some things are bad, so I’ll just leave it at that.

欧大卫市议员:让我回到你原来的问题。我说的有点远了。正因为如此,我父亲的信仰,也是我的信仰就是:上帝创造了你,上帝创造了我。有人不相信上帝,这没关系。但是我愿意相信上帝让每个人各自不同但又各自完美。不是外在而是内在的。所以,我们不能恨另一个人,我们不能臆断或者评判另一个人。因此,在我的孩提时代,我住在黑人社区,在韩国教堂参加活动。韩国来的大人们会问我:你是韩国人还是美国人?我的回答是,我是欧大卫(笑声)。他们说你是韩国人但是不会说韩国话。我说是的。“好丢脸,你都不会说韩国话。”我回答说我不会说韩国话,不过我对自己觉得挺满意的。我试着学韩语只不过我不够聪明。有人会说我们是美国人,不是韩国人。我会回应说我是韩裔美国人。我是美国人,但是我有很多观点、文化和对于身为亚裔的了解。我是美国人,但是我是亚裔美国人。

在我成长的路上有很多小伙伴为此挣扎。他们觉得自己必须选择成为白人或者韩国人。他们没选择成为黑人。这个问题在精神上使他们非常困扰。我觉得在内心他们是希望被接受。但是他们不知道如何定位。但是我觉得我可以在这个圈子,那个圈子或者没有圈子都没什么。因为,我只对自己负责,我就是我。如果这些人和我玩得来,那挺好。如果玩不来,也没啥。黑人、白人、拉丁人、亚裔、中国人、韩国人,真的不重要。我从来没有这样的挣扎。但是我知道这样的挣扎并不罕见。

我想帮助这些人,想和他们好好谈谈,但是我做不到。因为我不懂得他们的挣扎。简单来说,我就是觉得你就是你自己。其他人没资格来臆断或者评判你。别人认为你不能说中文啊,你不关注这个那个啊。没什么!你就是你自己。再举个例子,如果有人说:“欧大卫你长得很矮”。我会回答说是啊,我是很矮。“你越来越老咯”。是啊,我是越来越老了。没啥可遗憾的。世事无完美。我就这样来处理。

Mr. Councilman, the next question is: with your understanding, what is the biggest problem in the city of Philadelphia right now?

记者 :市议员先生,请告诉我你认为费城现在最大的问题是什么?

David: Right now, it’s a crime. Crime. Crime is the biggest problem. The reason is that if people are afraid to leave their house, if people are afraid to take their children to the park, people are afraid when their children get on a bus or go to school. If people are thinking about how dangerous their life is, they’re not thinking about their job, their future, their children. They’re thinking about leaving the city and people who don’t work in our city because of covid19 don’t want to come back and they don’t want to visit our city, have dinner here, go to a concert, do all the things that a big city offers, culture, art, sports. We have so many hotels and so many opportunities for them.  We depend on tourism. But, when people see a news report, about 100 people, over 160 people murdered in the first part of this year, you know, 500 people murdered last year. They don’t want to come to this city. Who would come to this city when they see people being beaten, shot. They read the story of innocent children, women hit by a straight bullet. And when they looked at the attitudes of our city in allowing people to riot, loot, not prosecuting people. The police not allowed to arrest people. Look at a neighborhood like Kensington, where there are so many drug addicted people coming from all over this region buying drugs, prostituting, public urination and defecation. They wonder what kind of city is this? So we have to deal with crime first. Then, we have to open our economy because people will come here. People will work here. So covid19 is a big problem. But the biggest problem for us right now is murder.

欧大卫市议员:现在是犯罪问题。犯罪是目前最大的问题。如果大家会害怕出门上街,带孩子上公园,送孩子上公交车,去学校。如果大家一直担心各类生活中的危险的话他们就会不再考虑他们的未来和他们的工作。他们会考虑搬家离开这个地方。那些因为新冠疫情而离开这里的人们也不会再回来。他们不希望来看看,来上个餐馆,来听个音乐会,不会再期待和享受这里的城市生活和文娱活动。想想城里的这些酒店吧。要知道我们需要旅游业。但是当人们看到新闻报道上说今年到现在已经有超过160人被谋杀,去年有超过500人被谋杀,他们不愿意来城里了。眼看着有人被殴打、被枪击,谁还愿意来到这样的城市?人们看到了无辜的妇女和孩童被枪击的报道。看到城里人对待犯罪的态度。看到了对骚乱、抢劫熟视无睹而不起诉的时候。当人们看到警察被不允许逮捕人犯的时候。看看肯辛顿社区吧,这么多的瘾君子买卖毒品,娼妓横流,随地大小便。这时他们会疑惑这是什么样的城市?我们必须先直面犯罪,然后我们会开放经济,让大家来开展工作。新冠疫情是个大问题,但是我们目前最大的问题是谋杀犯罪。

Well, my next question is about city councilman. This is a kind of easy question. A lot of our readers are first generation Chinese Americans maybe don’t even know what city councilman is. So give us a brief introduction about what is a city councilman. What is their job responsibility? What can you do for the ordinary people?记者:下一个问题是关于市议员的,对你来说大概不难。我们有很多读者是第一代华人,恐怕不明白市议员是干什么的。请给我们介绍下市议员的角色吧。市议员的职责是什么?你们能为大众做些什么?David: The American political system or the system of government is very difficult to understand. A smart person cannot really understand it too well, right? Because when you think about government, you might think about the president is the most powerful person, then the Senate, then the Congress, and they do the most important things. But America is upside down. America was founded in revolution against the King. So most of what American government is is about being independent. So the mayor of this city does not have to listen to the governor. The governor does not have to listen to the senator. The senator doesn’t have to listen to the president. I’m a councilman. I don’t have to listen to the mayor. I don’t have to listen to my colleagues. I don’t have to listen to anybody. But we have to work together. So the federal things they are like for the nation and international. But most of the things that affect people are local. State laws and city laws. So probably 80% of what people deal with our local issues. You got a pothole, you got a criminal, you go to school, somebody raises the taxes, somebody gets L&I problems, health department problem. You want outdoor seating, you want to take a public transportation, you can’t evict somebody who didn’t pay your rent. You go to a local court.欧大卫市议员:美国政治或者说政府结构是很难理解的。聪明人也搞不明白。你在想到政府的时候,往往会认为总统是最厉害的角色,然后是参议院,然后是众议院,这些是最重要的。但美国政体其实是倒过来的。这个国家是在反抗英国皇权的过程中建立的。所以美国政府中最重要的一个部分就是保持(相对)独立。一个城市的市长不一定要服从州长;州长不一定要服从参议员;参议员不一定要服从总统。我是一个市议员,我不一定要服从市长。我不一定要听从我同事的意见,不用听任何人的意见,但是我们还是得一起携手合作。联邦政府处理国家层面或者国际层面上的事。不过,和大众相关的事情基本是由宾州州法和费城城市法规来打理。人们平时面对的80%的事情基本都是本地地方性的事情。路面坑洼,罪犯横行,上学问题,赋税高涨;执照问题,健康问题,室外座椅问题,乘坐公交问题,无法驱逐房客,必须上法庭,等等诸如此类的问题。David: Most of the things are local. So one of the problems we had, for example, is one: There was a law that said Chinese takeout restaurants had to close at 11. Well, they didn’t say that. It said that businesses of a certain nature had to close at 11, but 97% of the businesses they closed were Chinese restaurants. There’s not that many Chinese takeout restaurants in Philadelphia, so 97% that means targeted Chinese takeout restaurants. 2000 dollars fine each time police coming to close them. That’s discrimination. It is unconstitutional. But, the mayor and his law department and city Council says it is not discriminatory. Now, they say it’s not discriminatory doesn’t make it non-discriminatory. It’s clearly discriminatory. So we ended up after a year of trying to change that law unsuccessfully. You know, I reached down to a nonprofit in New York called the Asian American legal defense fund, and they reached out to a big firm in Philadelphia called Pepper Hamilton, and we sued the city in federal court.欧大卫市议员:大部分事情都是本地地区性的问题。比如有一个问题就是:有一条法律说中餐馆外卖店必须晚上11点关门。其实它文本上没有这么说。它的原文说是某一类企业必须在(晚上)11点关门。不过(最后)97%被迫关门的企业是中餐馆。费城中餐外卖店并不算太多。97%的概念就是指这条法律是针对着中餐馆来的。每次被发现没有按时关的话,罚款2000美元,警察强制关门。这就是歧视!这是违背宪法的!不过市长、他的法务部门和市议会说这并没有歧视。不是说他们认为没有歧视就没有歧视了。这明明就是歧视!在努力了几年试图改变这条法律没有成功之后,我联系到了纽约一间叫Asian American Legal Defense Fund的非盈利组织,他们出面联系到了费城一间叫Pepper Hamilton的大所。我们在联邦层面起诉费城市政府。So you ask the people in the city to sue the city. That’s going to surprise our reader.记者:所以,你让市民起诉市政府。这会使我们的读者感到惊讶。

David: I’m happy to sue the rotten city. Anyway,the city made a law that Asian stores have to take down their bulletproof glass. That’s another illegal law.

欧大卫市议员:对啊,我很乐意起诉腐败的市政府。市政府制定法律要求亚裔店主必须拆下店里的防弹玻璃。这是又一条不合法的法律。

That one was passed and the mayor actually signed it.

记者:然而,这条法律通过了。市长签署了这条法案。

David: Yeah, sure. Sure he did.

欧大卫市议员:对啊,他签了。

Why you still say it’s illegal?

记者:为什么还是说它非法呢?

David: It’s illegal because it’s against the law. I am a lawyer. You cannot make a law says you can’t have bulletproof glass and voted just to Asian stores. In the creation of the law, they didn’t say bulletproof glass is a problem. They said Asian storeowners are a problem. Bulletproof glass is there because they don’t want to have any contact with the black people. That’s what they said. That’s a testimony, right? So then they say we have to take down bulletproof glass in those stores. Not we have to take down bulletproof glass in those stores.  Those stores are those stores, just the Asian stores. So, that makes it an illegal law. There was a famous case called Yick Wo case back in the 1800s.

欧大卫市议员:这是非法的因为它本身就违法。我是律师。要知道你不能通过一条针对亚裔店主说店里不能有防弹玻璃的法律。在起草的时候他们没说防弹玻璃是问题,他们说亚裔店主是问题所在,防弹玻璃在那儿是因为他们(亚裔店主)不愿意和黑人有接触,他们就这么说的,作证的时候就这么说的。然后他们说他们会在这些店里拆走防弹玻璃,但不会在其他一些店里拆走防弹玻璃,就让他们就做他们的生意,只拆亚裔店里的。这就是为什么这条法律本身就非法。在1800年代有一个很有名的Yick Wo的案例。

David: They said the laundry could not be made of X, Y and Z, but they only applied it to the Chinese laundry. What that means is, I cannot say in order to come into my fancy restaurant you have to wear a suit or you cannot be let in. And then I let everybody in who doesn’t have a suit. Then you come up with a suit and I say you can’t come.

欧大卫市议员:Yick Wo案例的情况是:他们说洗衣店在某些状况下不能开业,不过他们找准了只对中国人来执行。这好比就是,我不能说要来到我的这个豪华餐厅吃饭必须穿正装。然后我让所有没有穿正装的人都进去吃饭了,你来了,也穿着正装,我却不让你进去。

So, selectively targeting.

记者:所以是有选择性地执行。

David: Selectively targeting. Like I said anyone with a winning ticket can win 1 million dollars except for you. You have a ticket. It’s the winning number. “Why not me?” You are Chinese. We don’t let you win.

欧大卫市议员:有选择性的。就好像我说任何人有了这个中奖号码可以赢一百万美元,但是除了你以外。你有这号码,是中奖号码。“为什么我不能赢?”,你是中国人,我们不让你赢。

But, they don’t say it.

记者:但是他们不这么说。

David: No, they say it. Well, in another words, there are two ways it can be unconstitutional. One is you say: No black people can eat at this restaurant. So it’s constitutional, right? Or you can say, like, only good people can eat at this restaurant. But, you didn’t let 100 people in and 100 people were Chinese. That means either the law is vague, or, it is too broad. But in what you did, you hid behind the law to discriminate. So that’s also constitutionally illegal, and that’s very commonly known. That’s why the city settled in the federal court. They don’t want to fight that case.

欧大卫市议员:不,他们说了。换句话说,有两种情况可能构成违宪。第一种是比如你说黑人不能在这里吃饭。这违背宪法了是吧。或者你说只有好人才能在这个饭店吃饭,然后你不让100人进入这家饭店吃饭,这100人都是中国人。在这种情况下,或者就是法律界定太模糊,或者太宽泛。你所干的事就是,躲在法律背后来进行歧视。所以这也是不符合宪法精神的法律。这就是大家知道的情况。这就是为什么费城市政府在这个打到联邦层面的案例上寻求和解。他们不想继续打这个官司。

The city settled.  So, the city was basically saying: hey, stop fighting, I surrendered.

记者:市政府和解了。所以,费城市政府基本的意思就是:咱不打这个官司了,咱投降了。

David: I surrendered. So, then we said you had to pay 265,000 dollars to these people.

欧大卫市议员:投降了。然后我们说你们必须偿付26万5千美元给这些人。

2021年5月12日欧大卫和社区领袖在唐人街召开的反亚裔歧视团结集会

To each one of these people?

记者:每一个人?

David: Not each one. Total number. There is what? 26? 20? The problem is that there are a lot more people who could have gotten money from the city, but they didn’t want to be part of the lawsuit because they don’t want their name. They are afraid of the city, right?  And the settlement gives them some money, not the money that they lost. Some-money. You know, the reason why it’s important to get the money because the city today says we did nothing wrong. So we settled, but we didn’t do anything wrong. So I said to the lawyers, you know, we are not settled unless they give money. It’s important they cause businesses to go out of business. They did this for 14 years. They took 2000 dollars each time form people. They have to pay back something. Or they will say: it’s not that we did wrong just when you don’t want to fight. No, we have to say: pay money. That is the process. So when people don’t know the law and they don’t know the rights, they don’t know that they were mistreated, you know, they’re ignorant. That doesn’t mean they’re stupid. Ignorant means don’t know. By the same token, if I give you a menu and I say you have three desserts, vanilla ice cream, chocolate ice cream, strawberry ice cream, you can choose one of three. On the other page is 15 other desserts, but I didn’t show that to you. So, you are choosing three out of 18, right? You don’t have the full information, so there is misinformation, lack of information. There’s all kind of ways people do not know that what was done to them was wrong if they don’t know. So, many Chinese takeout restaurant owners who were fined tens of thousands of dollars lost their business. They cannot understand how come the police come to me and shut me down at 11:00.  But, this restaurant, they stay open. So they’re confused. But what happened is the police are following the instruction of someone who told them to go to this restaurant, even though that restaurant is not subject to this law, and closing them. Same thing was the bulletproof glass.

The government must be held accountable, but the government reflects people, when people, for example, when people want to treat other people badly, then the government is a reflection of them, like the Nazi Germany toward the Jews.

欧大卫市议员:不是每一个人,是总数。大概多少人(原告)?26?20?问题是,有很多人可以从市政府拿到钱,但是,他们不愿意参与控告政府。他们不愿意透露自己的名字,他们害怕市政府。和解协议分给了他们一些钱,但这不足以偿付他们的损失,只是一些钱。为什么拿到这些钱很重要呢?因为直至今日,市政府还是声称他们没做错什么。和解了,但是没做错任何事。我和律师说我们拒绝和解除非他们作出经济补偿。是他们的行为导致了餐馆企业被迫关门,他们这样干了14年,每次关店罚款2千美元,他们必须为此作出某些赔偿。否则他们会认为他们没做错事只是不愿意打官司了。不行!他们必须赔偿!流程就是这么走的。在人们不懂法,不知道自己的权利的时候,他们不知道自己被坑了。他们无知,不是说他们愚蠢,无知就是他们不知道不了解。一样的,如果我给你一份菜单,上面有三种甜点:香草冰激淋、巧克力冰激淋、草莓巧克力,你可以选三样中的一种来享用。在另一页上有十五种甜点,但是我没有拿给你看,所以你只是在十八份甜点中的三份中做选择。你没有得到全部信息。有虚假信息、不足信息或者各种情况。这只是个例子表明人们没得到信息就不知道他们被耍了。被罚了上万美元被迫关门大吉的中餐外卖店主可能不明白为什么警察11点来强制关我的店门,但是另一家店可以继续开着,他们被弄糊涂了。但是警察是服从了某些人的命令来强制关店尽管这家店并不属于这条法律的管控之内。防弹玻璃法案也是这么回事。

政府必须对人民负责,但是政府是民意的反映。举个例子,在一些人想要坑另外一些人的时候,政府就是这类民意的反映。就像德国纳粹怎样对待犹太人那样。

Majority bullying?

记者:多数派的暴政吗?

David: Majority opinion. That’s why white people can keep black people in poor places. That’s why the Japanese can get rid of the history book. Who is in power? So there has to be a law or a procedure or a process that is always fair whether you are weak, whether you’re an outcast. It has to be fair. You have to follow that process. That’s called due process, and that’s why there’s a constitution and laws. So the Chinese, for example, could not fight politically. They couldn’t vote, but they went to court to sue. This is back in the 1800s. So many of the Supreme Court cases that established civil rights was actually brought by Chinese people in the 1800. When people say, Asians and Chinese didn’t contribute to civil rights. That’s 100% wrong! It predates the African American civil rights movement. Chinese laid a lot of the law about civil rights in this country. Remember the first effort to keep people out of this country, and if you left, you could not come in, was the Chinese exclusion act. And then the other acts that discriminate against all of Asia, not just Chinese, not just Japanese. Anybody from Asia could not immigrant to this country.

So, the question is, that was okay with white people, was okay with black people, it was okay with everybody. But, it was OK to keeping out Asian people.

欧大卫市议员:多数人的观点。这就是为什么白人能把黑人弄在烂区。这就是为什么日本人可以修改教材。就看谁在台上掌权。必须有公平的法律或者说流程或者程序,无论面对的是否是弱者或者非主流,流程必须公平。我们称之为正当法律程序。这就是为什么我们有宪法和法律。在历史上中国人无法在政治上做斗争,他们不能投票,不过他们上法庭打官司。在1800年代有很多后来构建了民权法案基础的最高法院案例是由中国人提出的。当代很多人说亚裔或者说中国人没有在民权运动中作出贡献,这百分之百是错的!在黑人民权运动之前,中国人打下了很多民权法律上的基础。记住,第一个想要把某些人关在美国国门之外的法案是《排华法案》。还有其他法案歧视亚裔,不单单是中国人、日本人,任何人从亚洲来的都不能移民进入这个国家。问题是,对白人、黑人、其他人都没问题,就是把亚裔拦在外边。

My next question is, what is your biggest achievement as a city councilman? Do you consider the resistance to bulletproof glass banning is one of your biggest achievements?

记者:我的下一个问题是,你作为市议员最大的成就是什么?你认为反抗强拆防弹玻璃法案是你最大的成就之一吗?

David: I think so. I mean, it’s very hard to answer that kind of question because it’s not like there’s a big thing, and the next big thing. It’s more like there’s a bunch of things. As a veteran I consider like creating a veterans tax credit. That means if you hire a returning veteran, then you save 5000 on your business taxes for three years. 15,000. So if you hire a veteran, you save 15,000. That helps hire veterans. It helps attract veterans. Veterans received a lot of training in the military, so we treat them well. They come here, create more employees, which means more employers want to stay here.

I am proud of a number of things you know that I have done. I never really remember the good things I’ve done. They’re done. I remember the good things I tried to do that didn’t get done because that’s what I want to get done. When people ask me what’s what’s the best thing you’ve done? I always have a hard time. When they ask me what are your biggest failures. I remember those because I am still working on them.

欧大卫市议员:我想是吧。回答这类问题很难。因为这不是一个又一个经天纬地的大事情。基本上就是一件一件的事情。作为一个退伍军人,我考虑为退伍军人制定减税条例。如果你雇佣一个退伍军人,你可以得到5千美元的税收优惠。三年的话可以达到1万5千美元。这可以帮助我们的退伍军人,吸引退伍军人,他们在部队里受过很多训练。我们好好对待他们,他们在这里成为好的雇员,也会使更多的雇主愿意留在这里。

我对自己的一些成就感到自豪。我从来不记着自己做过的好事。这些事都完成了。我记得我想要做的但是没有做成的好事,因为这些才是我愿意花力气做好的事。人们问我我做的最好的事是哪些的时候我总是不知道该怎么回答。他们问我我最大的失败是什么,我都记得,因为这些事情我还在着手继续做着。

Well, actually, that’s why that’s the question. What is your biggest frustration?

记者:事实上这就是我的下一个问题。你最大的挫折是什么?

David: My biggest frustration is that the government of this city and I am sure not just the city does illegal things. For example, the property taxes in the city are illegal, Illegal. It’s just illegal.

欧大卫市议员:我最大的挫折是,这个城市的市政府,我相信不只是这个城市做非法的事情。举个例子,这个城市的房产税就是非法的,非法的就是非法的。

Why is it illegal?

记者:为什么是非法的?

David: Because the assessment of property, the methodology is below industry standard.

Let’s say that I would buy this cup of tea for 50 cents. Throw in the glass. I give you a dollar. You’ll buy it for a dollar. Somebody sees it. Everybody buy it for a dollar. The city says this is worth 50 dollars. It’s ridiculous, right? Then you have to pay 10% tax on 50 dollars. You’ve to give me 5 dollars tax. It’s ridiculous. It is Ten cents.

欧大卫市议员:因为房产评估系统的方法是低于业界标准的。举个例子,我花50美分买这杯茶。放在杯子里1美元,我付了1美元。你也花了1美元买茶,所有人都花了1美元买茶。市政府说这杯茶值50美元。这就可笑了。你必须付10%的税,50美元的10%就是5美元。(笑声)你要付税5美元。太可笑了,应该是1毛钱。

So, Mr. Councilman, in your opinion, the city government is overestimate the value of the property.

记者:所以,市议员先生,你的观点是市政府高估了房产价值。

David: This is not just my opinion. The city Council hired an independent auditor. The audit come back that the methodology is below industry standard. That means it is unreliable. And then when you look at the complaints of people, you see some crappy little house. They say it’s worth 375,000 dollars. That’s ridiculous. You look at the picture. You look at one block. This house is the same house, the same land. They’re all different prices. And another thing is when they do the 10-year tax abatement. They say every house next to it went up in value from 150,000 to maybe 400,000. That’s illegal. Under the law, you cannot increase the value of the assessed value of the property because of a 10-year tax abatement. That’s the law. But this city right away, Oh, that house got invested. So your house… they commonly do that. They don’t even have the computer system to do what’s called a mass appraisal.

欧大卫市议员:不单是我的观点。市议会雇佣了一个独立审计机构。审计报告出来说评估方法是低于业界标准的。就是说这是靠不住的。看看大家的抱怨吧,你看到那些破烂小房子被评估值成37万5千美元。这太可笑了。看着照片,同一个街区同样大小同一个样式的房子估价都不相同。还有就是10年减税方案,他们说邻近的房子估价从15万变成了40万。这是非法的。根据法律,你不能根据10年减税方案的价值来估价。这就是法律。不过,在这里,他们一旦看到有投资客进来(你的街区),你的房产估价也上涨。他们一直这么干。他们连大规模估价的软件程序都没有。

What causes that, Mr. councilman? I was very curious to see the Democrat has been controlled the city for last 50 years. And you are probably one of the two Republican city Council member. What causes that? Is that part of the issues just because we don’t really have that much competition in the city?

记者:为什么会这样,市议员先生?我很好奇地看到民主党已经在过去50年控制了市政府。你是唯二的两个共和党市议员中的一个。怎么会这样的?是不是因为我们事实上在市政上并没有什么(党派)竞争的关系呢?

David: Well, maybe, and maybe not. I mean, the Republicans used to run the city up until about 1950, and they were very corrupt. Republicans were very corrupt. And then the Democrats came in, and in a short while they became very corrupt. Part of the problem is there’s only one party. I think two parties are important to balance each other. The other thing is the people. It doesn’t matter if they are Democrat or Republican. What matters is that they’re honest. Honesty is sometimes a kind of a tricky thing, right? In other words, someone wants to do good, and in order to do good, they push their will. They make laws like the Ordinance. They think it’s good. These Chinese take out restaurants. They are rotten. Or, the bulletproof glass’s bad. They have very subjective opinions. They are not willing to follow the rules. And, for example, someone says, Oh, look, during covid19 we shouldn’t evict people, so we’re gonna say nobody can be evicted. But the landlord can be also a poor person renting and they cannot get any income and the person can pay; they just don’t want to pay. They’ve been told you don’t have to pay, so why pay? So they’re not paying. The government is telling this person, this is your property, but you cannot collect the money you are owed, you cannot evict them. And this person, even if they can pay you, doesn’t have to pay you. So the government is controlling your property. Is that right? So we can understand during Covid we can do some emergency measure to help, but you cannot extend it and extend it. And you know. So we call that Machiavellian. Machiavellian means there’s an author of a book called <the prince>. What he said is a smart king doesn’t give his things.

I take your things and give it to somebody else. Here’s a present to you, but it’s not mine, right? That’s called Machiavelli. So Machiavellian means: You don’t have to pay rent, you don’t have to leave. But he is the one paying for it. Not me. I am forcing you, even though it’s your property, that you cannot control your property by the law.    If you try to evict him, we will punish you. Maybe you will be fined and maybe you’ll be sued. So part of it is people think they’re doing good but they are not balanced. They have to be balanced.

欧大卫市议员:可能是,也可能不是。共和党一直到1950年代还在这里执掌政权。他们很腐败了。共和党很腐败了。然后民主党来了,时间不长,他们也腐败了。一部分的原因是:只有一个政党。我认为两党执政是重要的,可以相互制衡。另一点就是人的因素。不管是民主党或者共和党,关键是要诚实。诚实这个概念有时候很难讲。换句话说,有人想做好事,因为要做好事他们会把他们的意志强加于人。他们像制订教条一样制订法律。他们认为这样很好。比如:这些外卖中餐馆好腐败;这些防弹玻璃很糟糕;等等。他们的观念相当主观。他们不愿意按规则行事。再举个例子,有人说在新冠疫情期间如果有房客交不出房租我们不应该驱逐他们,所以我们宣布不可以驱逐房客。但是房东可能也是个穷人,禁止驱逐房客他们就没有了收入。有些人其实有钱付房租,但是他们就是不愿意付房租。他们被告知他们不用付钱。所以为啥要付呢?政府告诉房东:这是你的房产,但是你不能收房租。你不能驱逐房客。这个房客有钱付租金但是他们可以不付。这样政府控制了你的房产了。这样做对吗?在新冠疫情期间我们可以采取一些紧急措施来帮助大家,但是你不能无限期延长再延长。这就好像是马基雅维利主义。马基雅维利主义的出处是马基雅维利的著作《君主论》。他的原话是:聪明的君主不把自己的东西送人。聪明的君主把你的东西拿来做人情送给另外的人。这不是我的东西,但是我拿来送给你作为给你的礼物。马基雅维利主义在这里的表现就是:你不必付房租,你不必搬走,付钱的家伙是那个人,不是我!根据法律,我强迫你放弃你对自己物业财产的管辖权,尽管这是你的物业你的财产。如果你想要驱逐他们,我们会惩罚你!可能你会被迫付罚金,被起诉!人们觉得他们自己在做好事, 但是他们没有兼顾平衡。做事情必须有平衡。

So do you have some kind of solution to that?

记者:那你有什么解决方案吗?

David: Well, well, the first thing is, follow the law.

欧大卫市议员:首先要遵守法律。

Even a bad law?

记者:即使是不好的法律吗?

David: There should be no bad law. There are illegal laws. You have to get rid of the bad laws. There are laws that are legal that I don’t like, but they are legal. And there are laws that reflect the will of the people that I don’t agree with that they are legal, you know, people can make decisions. What you cannot do is make illegal laws.

欧大卫市议员:不应该有不好的法律。有不合法的法律。必须要废除不好的法律。有我不喜欢的合法的法律,但是它们是合法的。也有反映我不赞同的那些人们意志的合法的法律。要知道,人们有权利做决定。但是,不能制订不合法的法律。

David: People like me, a legislator and a lawyer, should know what is legal and illegal. So, for example, I cannot just make a law that you are not allowed to work in this place. Why? Because you’re Chinese, that’s an illegal law.  Just the same as you cannot say you can close a Chinese takeout restaurant at 11 because they’re Chinese takeout restaurant. That’s illegal.

欧大卫市议员:像我这样的人,律师出身的立法者,应该知道哪些合法哪些不合法。比如,我不能立法规定说因为你是中国人你就不能在这里工作。这是不合法的。就像你不能说中餐馆就因为是中餐馆所以就必须11点关门。这也是非法的。

David: I cannot say you because you’re Asian must take down your bulletproof glass, but the white and black and other people can keep it up. That’s illegal. It’s clearly illegal. So there are many of the problems in the city, for example, when the district attorney, Larry Krasner, he says to someone, although you shot that man and crippled him with your AK 47; he is an Asian, beer deli owner, you’re a black. So we are going to treat you with leniency.

欧大卫市议员:我不能说你是亚裔,所以就必须拆掉防弹玻璃。但是那些白人黑人和其他人就可以保留着。这是非法的,很明白就是非法的。城里有很多问题,比如,地区检察官拉里.克拉斯纳和人说:尽管你用AK47打伤并且致残了那个人——伤者是亚裔熟食店店主,但你是黑人,所以我们对你从轻发落。

If he is here, if Krasner is sitting here, are you going to confront him?

记者:如果克拉斯纳在这里坐着的话,你会当面质询他吗?

David: I already had. I do it all the time. I tell him all the time. You look at the pattern. If it is one case that maybe not his fault. For example, he just announced 500 people who were caught looting stores. What is it to loot a store? First of all you, your store is closed because of Covid, or you close your store. I take something; I break your window; I come in and I start taking all your things out with 20 people. They all ran away, I got caught. He said, because of George Floyd or because of Walter Wallace Jr, what I did was because I was enraged about the civil rights. So, what I did was a good thing. So, when I stole the sneakers or the computer or the television or the washing machine, I was actually exercising the very important civil rights. So my point is this: How can he tell? In other words, that is not the role of the District Attorney to read these 500 criminals they did it for a good purpose. But these criminals did it. How can you tell? They all went into different places. When they break into someplace, let’s say you live upstairs. Do you shoot them? Do they kill you? Like, what happens?  To break in a place is a great risk, and that is a problem. Same thing. When people blocked the highway, maybe you have to go to the hospital, maybe your children have to make it to someplace, maybe you’re going to a funeral, maybe you have to go to the bathroom, whatever it is. They have no right to go into the street. 300 people. If one person goes on the highway, I believe them. When 300 people blocked the highway, they are threatening you, threaten you! If you try to move forward, we’re going to smash your windows, we’ll pull you out and beat you to death. I say you can exercise your rights as long as they don’t violate my rights. I can exercise my rights as long as I don’t violate your rights. But, if I want to exercise civil disobedience, I want to go out in the middle of the road and get attention. Eventually I got to go. The road, there are many exits. You can go around it. You can take a while, but you can do it. Highway. You cannot get off the highway for miles and somebody might come out and shoot you. Somebody might run you over so the police must come, must come. They must come! They cannot avoid coming. Then this group wants to fight with the police. The police tell them to get off the road. They don’t want to get off the road. They throw tear gas. They move back, but they don’t get off the road, so the police will use more tear gas and they should leave.

欧大卫市议员:我已经这么做了,一直这么做。你观察下趋势,如果只是一个单独的个案,可能不是他的错。但是举个例子,他宣布了在骚乱中打劫商店的500人……什么是打劫?你的店因为新冠或者其他原因关闭了,我拿东西砸破了你的窗,我和其他20个人冲进来拿走我想要的东西,那20个人都逃走了而我被抓了。他说因为乔治.弗洛伊德或者因为小沃尔特.华莱士(被杀)的事情,我应该因为民权运动的原因而觉得愤慨,而我做的事(打劫)是件好事是善举!我偷球鞋、电脑、电视或者洗衣机是在践行民权运动的重要权利。我的论点是:他怎么知道的?地区检察官的工作职责不是分析这500名罪犯是否是出于善心而打劫的!你怎么知道的?他们都冲击打劫了不同的地方。在他们冲进一些地方的时候,如果你住在楼上,你对他们开枪吗?他们会杀了你吗?会发生什么?冲进某个地方打砸是一个很大的冒险,是一个大问题。同样的,有人群堵住了高速公路。当时你可能(正在高速上)要去医院,要送孩子去某地,可能要参加一个葬礼,可能去厕所,无论如何,他们300来人没有权利冲上高速路!如果只是一个人上了高速,我相信他。如果300人冲上了高速,他们对你(在高速上驾车的人)构成了威胁!构成了威胁!如果你车再往前开,他们可能会砸你车窗,把你拽出来打死你!只要你不损害我的权益,你可以践行你的权利。只要我不损害你的权益,我可以践行我的权利。但是,如果我想践行民权运动的非暴力不合作抗争,我可以在路上(呼喊)引起人们的注意,尽管最终我还是得离开。路有很多出口,你可以花些时间,总能绕出去。但是高速路延续几英里你根本没法子绕出去。可能有人拿出枪来打你,可能有人开车碾过你,所以警察必须,必须,必须赶来!这时候这批人开始和警察推搡。警察让他们离开高速,他们不肯离开。警察使用了催泪弹,他们稍做撤退,还是不肯离开高速,警察用了更多的催泪弹。要知道他们应该离开。

David: When the people in the Washington, DC are storming the building, did they say, don’t use tear gas? No, they want to use tear gas. You cannot say, don’t use tear gas against us, but use it against them. No, either you use tear gas or you don’t.

The mayor is very subjective. He is saying we don’t want to use the tear gas against these people. We should not arrest them. The mayor says to the police: You cannot arrest all these people rioting. If you’re upset about George Floyd, that’s that’s understandable. If you want to yell and scream, that’s fine. But you start breaking windows and kicking out. Now you’re a criminal, and the mayor said they’re not criminals, he told the police you cannot arrest him, he said you have to give them a fine.  And then the mayor says, I forgive all the fines, just like that. How about you forgive my fine, like, how do you distinguish, right? Same play with Larry Krasner, he say these people are criminals, but, then the ones who he doesn’t know what they did, he just 500 of them. I just will give them community service. Well, what about the businesses? They were looted three times that they lost their money, they lost their investment. Maybe they bought a gun. Maybe they never wanted to buy a gun. You know, the thing is, they say, like this, people’s rights are so important. But what about the store-owners and their families? Their rights or nothing? Most of the store owners are immigrants. A lot of them are Asian, and this is the problem. When the victims are Asian, they don’t care, you know, because they have an idea that the persons who are protesting if they’re white, they’re protesting for righteousness. If they’re black, they’re protesting for civil rights. But you as an immigrant, especially Asian store owner, you’re selfishly just about money. You’ve been making your money off of these people. You should be robbed. You should have your store burned. Your children should not go to school. So you understand what it feels like to be black. Now that’s ridiculous. Who’s making that kind of judgment? That is the mayor and Larry Krasner? Are they poor? Are they uneducated? Are they blackmailed or not? Are they poor Mexican or Chinese immigrant? They got health care; they got a pension; they got everything. So my point is, they’re very unfair people. You’re asking me, how does this happen? They have a very discriminatory idea.

欧大卫市议员:当人们在华盛顿特区冲进大楼的时候,他们说别用催泪弹了吗?不,他们要用催泪弹。你不能说别用催泪弹针对我们但是要用催泪弹来针对他们。不能!你或者用或者不用!市长非常主观!他说,我们不想用催泪弹来针对这些人,我们不应该逮捕他们。市长对警方表态说他们不能逮捕这些人。要知道你如果对于乔治.弗洛伊德事件感到愤慨我完全可以理解,如果你想大声呼号也没问题。你砸窗户打劫,你就是个罪犯!市长却说他们不是罪犯,他不允许警察逮捕他们。他说可以对他们罚款,然后他又取消了这些罚款。那你取消我的罚款怎样?你如何来区分?检察官克拉斯纳做的事情也一样。他说这些人是罪犯,他也不知道他们干了什么。然后他说我们让这500人来做社区服务就可以了。那受损的商家怎么办?那些被打劫了3次的商家怎么办?他们失去了投资的钱财!可能他们买了枪,可能他们从没想过买枪。问题是他们说那些人的权利非常重要。那这些店主们和他们的家人呢?他们的权利啥都不是吗?大部分店主都是移民,很多是亚裔。这就是问题:受害者是亚裔的时候他们根本不当回事!因为他们脑子里有这个固有的念头:抗议者如果是白人,他们是为了正义而斗争;抗议者如果是黑人,他们是为了民权而斗争;但是你作为一个移民,特别是亚裔移民店主的话,你就是个自私的敛财狂。你就知道赚他人的钱。你应该被抢劫,你的店应该被烧,你的孩子应该不能去学校,这样才能让你体会到身为黑人的痛苦。这真是可笑!谁在做这样的臆断?是我们的市长和检察官克拉斯纳。他们穷吗?他们没受过教育吗?他们被人勒索了吗?他们是穷苦的墨西哥或者中国移民吗?他们有医疗保险,有退休金,什么都有。所以我的观点是他们是非常不公平的人。你问我这是怎么会发生的?(因为)他们有非常歧视性的想法!

David: Listen, outside of that, they’re good people. That means I am not perfect. I try to be aware when I say something critical about the mayor or about Larry Krasner. Look, Larry Krasner wants to do good things. The mayor wants to do good things. I may disagree with them on how to do those good things. There are some points where I completely oppose them. I oppose the property taxes. It’s completely illegal. You see when you raised the assessment value greater than it should be, if I am rich, I can pay it. I don’t want to pay it, but I can pay it. But if I am poor, I lose my house. And a lot of people who are being pushed out of their house under sheriff sales are poor black people. They said they want to help poor black people.

What about poor white people? They’re losing their houses too. How about poor Chinese people or Korean people? They’re only talking about poor black people, but they’re pushing them out of the house. They push them out of the house, then they give them some money. They push them out of the house and they say you can’t evict them. But first of all, you should assess the property accurately and fairly.  See, the thing is, if this person’s house is worth 400,000 dollars, okay, you can sell it. You can get the money. But, if your house is worth 120,000 dollars and you got to pay taxes on a 400,000 dollars house and nobody is going to buy it and then at sheriff sale, you not even getting 120,000 for it. Nobody’s going to pay you 120,000 for 120,000 house. Maybe they’ll buy it for 30,000. So, that’s a problem. That’s the problem of gentrification. So the policies of the city are very problematic.

欧大卫市议员:听着,除却了这些事的话,他们是好人。这个意思就是我并不完美,我在批评市长和克拉斯纳的时候自己也要意识到这一点。克拉斯纳想做好事,市长也想做好事。我在如何做这些好事的方式上和他们观念不一致。有些地方我完全反对他们的做法。我反对房产税,这是完全非法的。你提高了房产估值,如果我有钱,我可以交了税就算了。我不愿意交但是我有能力交。但如果我没钱,我就会失去我的房子。很多情况下房产被迫进入法拍程序,失去房子的人很多是穷苦的黑人;要知道他们说他们想帮助穷苦的黑人呐。那些穷苦的白人呢?他们也在失去房子。那些穷苦的中国人、韩国人呢?他们只谈穷苦黑人,但是他们(的政策)在把他们撵走。把他们撵走,然后给他们一点点钱。把他们撵走,然后说你不能驱逐他们。不过,首先你必须要精确地给房产估值。如果这个人的房产价值40万美元,你可以卖了它,可以拿到钱。不过,如果你的房子价值12万美元,但是你必须以40万美元为估价基数来缴税,那没有人会来买这个房子。然后,在法拍的时候,你连12万都拿不到,可能只能拿到3万。这就成问题了。成了城区士绅化(贫富差距加深)的问题了。城里的政策是非常有问题的。


美国是移民构建的国家。一代代的移民在努力奋斗了之后为下一代创造越来越好的生活,这就是美国梦的由来。美国从来不是完美无缺的。每一代新来的移民都能或多或少地感受到上一批本地居民的态度,这种态度因人而异,有人友好热情,有人充满敌意。
1850年代后,大量的爱尔兰人移居到美国,定居费城。1880年代后,很多意大利人移居美国,也留在了费城。第一代新老移民共处费城街头的时候,有很多爱尔兰和意大利居民加入帮派,相互群殴,很多年之后才消停下来。1910年代到1930年代才是费城的黄金年代。欧大卫市议员在采访期间提到的早期华人Yick Wo v. Hopkins的案例就是华人通过法庭打败系统性歧视的一个例子。这个案例开创了一个先例:这个先例就是对美国宪法第十四条修正案的构建性解读。最高法院明确表示:法院可以超越法律的表面文字,从宪法的角度来评判案例。法院也能从法律的执行过程来评价法律,进而来判断它是否符合宪法。这个一直打到美国最高法院的案例的背景是当时在加州的华人大量涌入洗衣店行业。冲击了原先洗衣店行业的本地白人居民。在本地白人居民的坚持下,三藩市政府作出规定,规定洗衣店只能在砖石构建的房子里开业,不能在木结构房子里开业,违反此条例,市政府不给予开业执照。而当时的情况是,在三藩市几百个洗衣店里,只有大约1/4, 也就是74家符合这个砖石房屋的要求。而这74家洗衣店里,只有1家是中国人开的。换句话说,这条法律就是要把中国人挤出三藩市洗衣店行业。本案主人公Yick Wo因为违章开业被捕。不过和其他认栽认罚的人不同,他坚持认为自己无罪,而三藩市政府的这条洗衣店法令违反了宪法第十四修正案规定的在州管辖范围内,不得拒绝给予任何人以平等法律保护的条款。官司一直打到最高法院。最后,最高法院判定Yick Wo胜诉。大法官马修斯(Matthews)在判辞中写到:“Though the law itself be fair on its face, and impartial in appliance, yet, if it is applied and administered by public authority with an evil eye and an unequal hand, so as practically to make unjust and illegal discriminations between persons in similar circumstances, material to their rights, the denial of equal justice is still within the prohibition of the constitution.”“尽管法律文本和执行都无可挑剔,但如果通过邪妄之眼和不公平的手段再加以公权利来执行,在事实上,这就可以成为非正义的和非法的歧视。在人和人之间,在类似的情况、物资和所有权上,阻断平等、公义的行为依然是宪法所禁止的。”Yick Wo没有想到这个案例使他名垂青史。他大概也没想到,一百多年后系统性歧视和烂政官员依旧存在。我们知道,在新老居民共处一个社区的时候,很多矛盾会爆发出来。而在爆发矛盾的时候,就是对市政官员的行政能力和行为品格考量的时候。

善花是否一定结出善果?善心是否一定能有善举?费城的市政官员们,我们拭目以待。

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